I'm still criticized in my last blog post, the quality of the magazine "The Pigeon", and then I read today in the 49/08 turn contribute to the topic of breeding and, moreover, one that I think very good. The title of the article is "men talks" and it is essentially a discussion of the author with the two icons breeder Harry Tamsen and Günter Prange.
I find the article very well because it reflects the experiences of two very experienced breeders on breeding, and doing some very useful conclusions can be drawn. And in addition, the article an excellent example on how we receive information that we should judge of top breeders, pigeon experts, breeding experts, blog writers, or who receive :-) Anyway,: Curious, open, but always critical! (As I said, this applies to the same extent for my blog posts, reader!)
Tamsen Harry has many things in the article, very true words, I think: first
If you mated average dust with very good pigeons, but is never very good out here!
second Flock of pigeons which fly by abandoning in smaller local groups like learn how to minimize losses, but in the long run of the requirement that we must separate from the flock of pigeons, not conducive. As a consequence Auflässe therefore be sought in larger composites.
third Frequent Umpaaren helps to identify the "strong heredity," doves. And only this one should continue to work preferred.
In addition, I was particularly impressed by Günter Prange. Above all, because he has retained his statements, even if some statement of Harry Tamsen at one point or another almost invited to a contradiction. But what he said had weight. In particular, I think his statement is emphasized that is the character of an extremely important and the rest of hereditary property of pigeons in Selection must be taken into account, for he makes the really good pigeon. For my part I will summarize this term such things as curiosity, learning ability, territoriality and breeding behavior. The word "stubbornness" that Harry brought Tamsen at this point in the game, I personally can not start as much as I find it hard stubbornness and lack of ability to learn to separate cleanly. Further evidence of Günter Prange I found very valuable, such as that we should inflate its stock does not, so you do not lose track of the breeding goal in mind and that patience is very important and that much even with him just was lucky.
get
criticism
But as already mentioned, the article is therefore also very good because it shows clearly that we believe the information we receive about our sport from others, always verify critical need, even if they come from such breeders icons.
Specifically
Harry Tamsen is very generalized, in some statements that his long experience, probably his success may be the opportunity for that. But surely, since that brain of man is always happy when it detects patterns in the chaos to which it can talk. And if a plausible model for us, it is for us the "reality" is among the many things we are classifying, even if not always logical, and thus is not always correct in the sequence.
So is the first statement Harry Tams, that the average dust paired with very good pigeons practically never very good result, certainly arisen as a result of his experiences and observations of many farmers, whom he met over the years, and is therefore valuable. However, his argument that this effect is probably instrumental in the inbred pigeons is worse, many farmers operate, is not conclusive. It could be a reason if it were the case that many poor farmers would operate long inbreeding in "its own juices." But would then be already achieved significant levels of inbreeding on these breeders, so that reasoning does. But in fact, but also the unsuccessful attempt to introduce something new, only just failed.
It is precisely the population genetics of a very good explanation for Tamsen observation and, moreover, a scientifically proven! In the performance properties are essentially quantitative properties by an accumulation of as many good genes (almost always are the recessive alleles [allele \u0026lt;-> name of a gene variant] ) can be increased (see see also former Blog article in this series). A recessive allele will only be effective if it homozygous, thus appearing to each of the two chromosomes of a chromosome pair.
The destructive influence of mediocrity
The probability of an allele homozygous (homozygous) in a population occurs depends of course on the frequency of this allele from this population in which I'm putting together combinations. If the population is large enough and well mixed, one can calculate the correlation between the frequency of an allele and its homozygosity. This calculation formula we have given the researchers due to Hardy and Weinberg. And even if our Population is mixed not Pefekt, and relatively small, gives us the result of this calculation still a good idea of where this is the basic problem:
shows the red curve, the percentage of animals, a feature showing visible when we consider a single recessive allele. If for example 50% of all animals carry this allele in itself, probably 25% of all animals of this allele present homozygous and thus show the corresponding property. Only when more than 70% frequency of this allele in the stock shows at least half of all animals that property. But we are dealing with so many recessive alleles that a property such as high speed flight . Determine And it would be only 10 alleles, which would be relevant to the particular quality of an ace bird, and these 10 were sitting on 10 different chromosomes, so that they would not inherited in one step, but independently of each other, it follows that the probability that "act" in an animal all the genes the blue curve can be used in the graphic. And that is remarkable!
It shows that we have this, not even very serious conditions (namely, there are certainly more responsible than a 10 genes for an ace-pigeon) is a probability of only 0.1% once such a As to breed pigeon, even if all Doves in the population of all these important genes with a probability of 50% carry with them! Even if already bear 70% of all pigeons these important genes that are subject to our chances of an ace-pigeon of this kind at just 2.8%. This is so very dramatically illustrates how strong decrease already a little dilution from very good genes in a herd our chances of good young talent. And that's why you should only use very very good starting point for breeding and that is why insertion of top pigeons out practically in a group of moderate doves never a success! Tamsen Harry is absolutely right, but from an entirely different reason when he mentioned here.
year-old deaf and Umpaaren
Another, again and again to read thesis is that is drawn from years of pigeons better than from older ones. In the bold formulation of Harry Tamsen this will become even said that at the top of a beat at least one pigeon breeder was that age and have the parents (quote) "never" brought similar good siblings. Now again the joy of proposing a made by observation experience Harry Tamsen probably a trick. This observation is applicable not only to rule, but is already equal to only.
As a critical reader pigeon breeder and you should allow for the Breeders' icon simply Hide, and his descent folder get out of the closet:
The parents of Rambo, a travel-As were by van Dyck 4 and 5 years old. The Rambo brought Het Laatje both Kannibaal and the Bourges. Both travel and breeding aces. Here the parents were 2 - and 5-year! The parent bird at
Joop Koch, the "light of Orleans" was 6.nat. Ace Pigeon, his father was 9 years old, his mother two years old. He went with the "wick Belg" in solid pairing several years a 1.nat Ace Pigeon Short, a 3rd nat. Ace Pigeon Middle Distance and 9.nat. Ace Pigeon Middle Distance. The parents of the
Fieneke Vervoort are 4 - and 3-years old. They brought also the B-98-800, in the grains in Germany became a Topzuchttaube.
King and Queen at Andreas Drapa are 4 - and 5-year, as they took the 638, the 2002 1.As-bird was in Germany and they were already 6 - and 7-year-old when she and the another one in 1020 . As Bird and Olympic champion brought.
The parents of the Figo of Reynaert were already 7 - and 4-year, but they did have 5 - and 2-year-old Keizer, who also was 1.provinzielle Ace Pigeon and 14x1. Prices flew. They also brought some other top breeders, such as the "Small Figo" in Bosua. The car in Bosua
coupling consists of two doves, which also consists of 6 - were taken and a 4-year-old -, 6 -, 5. This breeding pair brought several As-pigeons, some of which, such as the Witkopje (best young NL) bred, was when the parents were the age of each fifth
I will stop here, otherwise it gets boring, but it could still continue as long as everyone understands the basis of race famous pigeons themselves! As it can come even with such an experienced breeder of such a miscalculation? Now, I think, something always happens when one does not consciously statistical effects. In the present case: Almost all stocks have a large proportion of pigeons year (often holding a stock). Therefore, it is also the case that involved a lot of pairings years of pigeons! You become 'statistically advantage. To form an opinion, one must not judge the number of good pigeons from pairings with years of pigeons, but put the number of such birds, first in relation to the number of such pairings. And only then can we compare this ratio with the corresponding ratios of the comparison group! And if the years of pigeons of a beat not by better health advantage, which for a consistently healthy stock should not be the case, we should expect quite clear that all age groups is approximately cut equally well, because the inheritance laws do not depend on age ( apart from very, very rare environmental influences on genetic material, such as mutations or epigenetic effects)!
And the rare occurrence of two aces in a pair is surely more of a statistical effect. It is already very rare to pull an ace out of a couple. It is once again just as rare, if I move a second ace of the same pair. By Umpaaren I increase but not these opportunities. This tells us the population genetics! This is apart from Umpaaren yet to identify a dominant sire a lot of sense. And here I would agree with Tamsen again.
forget sexes!
At another point, it trashes Harry Tamsen then really. Namely, as he the female offspring of a bird and the male Offspring of a female subordinate, it would 75% of the hereditary characteristics of the respective parents lead animal. Of course this is absolute nonsense! Of the 40 chromosome pairs of young pigeons are always 40 chromosomes from the father and 40 strands of strands of the mother.
It shows very dramatically, as can be very very good and very experienced fanciers pigeons, relevant literature and the traditions are shaped on breeding. Again and again, not scientifically tenable statements are made that consider the performances in pigeons essentially as sex-linked inherited (see my previous blog article).
But there are even some evidence that the essential performance characteristics of pigeons NOT be inherited sex-linked! How do I get this bold statement? Now, with "sex-linked" is meant so that the genes of these properties only on the Z chromosome (one bird with two, a female one), or only on the W chromosome (which carries only the female one) occur. If it were recessive, these properties could only be effective in birds show when it is present homozygously. Females, however, have always only one Z chromosome. It is thus here a recessive trait which is pronounced to be on this chromosome, since the "counterpart" in a second Z-chromosome missing. As a consequence, this has consequences for the frequency with which she loses any characteristic for days, it would have to prevail in fact more common in females. Now, if key performance characteristics that are recessive nature, were inherited sex-linked, would be superior to the birds, the females on average. The analysis of the AS-scores of the Federal-AS-pigeons in recent years, we recognize, however, that there be no difference in performance is!
But what if key performance characteristics were inherited sex-linked dominant and (it therefore needs only one Z chromosome, or only the W-chromosome carriers of the allele to be) would these dominant characteristics in performance-based selection of racing pigeons for centuries have been subject to enforced so strong that only very rarely should appear pigeons, which do not possess this allele. For each offspring, the so does not have an allele is, yes, right on through lower power and can be selected.
The thing with the 75%
by inbreeding it is quite possible, however, to breed pigeons that transmit secured 75% of the genome of their ancestors to descendants. This is in fact at an inbreeding coefficient of 50% of the breeding animal is the case (see also older blog posts on this topic)! He would, however, a multiple extreme inbreeding have preceded. How to reach this inbreeding coefficient, for example, if three consecutive generations of full-sibling pairs were complete. These animals then contain a Genmix their original parents (ie father and great-great-mother) is concentrated.
strong One might as well concentrate the genes of these two great-parents, if one roughly six generations in a row takes half sibling pairs, which were always paired together in this great-parents in line. This requires man 7 half-siblings (one by one sex [points to his parents to the inbred focus] and 6 of the opposite sex [per Inbred generation one]) This 7 half-siblings should therefore each have different parental counterparts, otherwise, the genotypes of the addition would occur more than once ancestors "concentrated".
could And as a third alternative, a roughly 10-fold return repeated pairing of children in one breeder and concentrate the same genes that single parents comparable animal. But I doubt very much that all these paths are breeding really useful. Because we would of course very strong risk that particularly all the bad genes were transferred to a dove, and concentrated. Moreover, in each generation would have even made an extensive breeding examination, so that solely on already time problems would arise. And finally, the inbreeding depression would most likely seal a very early failure of our efforts.
And so is the also the note by Günter Prange in this article again very valuable that we have to maintain the strain pairs very closely. But he would like to point out that he currently at eg 6 inbred such products in its inventory for a long does not consider that there was only one among them who inherited the good qualities. They all need to put to the test! And even if I already warned in so many places in my blog before the close of appearances with intrinsic value of a dove I: At this point, the selection of inbred products as an approach can be helpful. Even that has Günter Prange out in this article.
For each characteristic of a family pet, we find a direct descendant inbreeding indicates to us that at least the chromosome strand, on the "settled" for this characteristic was passed. And if we're lucky, it is precisely this chromosome strands that lead also important for the performance characteristics with them. So if very many of the features match, our chances are better, "get" the master pigeon.
0 comments:
Post a Comment